Israel is the Wild Card of Wild Cards
By Greg Hunter’s USAWatchdog.com
President Barack Obama drew some harsh criticism from the Prime Minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, after his comment last week to return to the 1967 borders. Like it or not, the President is trying to jump start peace talks between Israel and Palestine. Yesterday, the President tried to reaffirm the U.S. commitment to Israel during a speech he gave to AIPAC (American Israeli Public Affairs Committee). I listened to the entire speech, and I have to admit, it was one of President Obama’s best since he’s been in office. When it came to the 1967 Israeli borders, he said this, “And since my position has been misrepresented several times, let me reaffirm what “1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps” means. By definition, it means that the parties themselves -– Israelis and Palestinians -– will negotiate a border that is different than the one that existed on June 4, 1967. . . . The ultimate goal is two states for two people: Israel as a Jewish state and the homeland for the Jewish people — and the State of Palestine as the homeland for the Palestinian people — each state in joined self-determination, mutual recognition, and peace.” (Click here for the complete text of the speech.)
The Palestinians are hoping the United Nations will grant them independence in September of 2011. (Click here to read more on this story.) It is a self-imposed deadline and, peace deal or no peace deal, the Palestinian Authority (PA) will ask the U.N. to recognize the state of Palestine. One insurmountable problem is the recent unification of the two Palestinian factions, Hamas and Fatah (PA). Hamas is considered a terrorist organization that seeks the destruction of Israel. That is one very big sticking point and, I think, a deal breaker right out of the box. Retired Major General Yitzhak Gershon said yesterday on FOX News that this combination “. . . will continue the conflict forever.”
Meanwhile, UPI is reporting more protests are being planned by Palestinian groups. The story yesterday reported, “A Palestinian group Sunday said more protests were being planned along Israel’s borders and warned it is “just the beginning.” . . . The committee called for peaceful marches next month “to the borders of historic Palestine,” the news agency said.” (Click here to read the entire UPI story.) A little more than a week ago, on the Israeli, Syrian and Lebanon border, protests were anything but “peaceful.” A Daily Mail story said, “Israeli troops today clashed with Arab protesters along three hostile borders, including the frontier with Syria, leaving 16 people dead and dozens more wounded in an unprecedented wave of demonstrations marking a Palestinian day of mourning for their defeat at Israel’s hands in 1948.” (Click here for the complete Daily Mail story.)
On the Israeli side, there are certain territories that will not be given up because of their strategic importance. The Golan Heights on Israel’s Northeast border were part of Syria before the “Six-Day War” in 1967. This mountainous region has peaks that are 3,000 to 4,000 feet high and were used to fire down upon Israel. It is hard to believe that Israel would give this up even with the recently deployed “Iron Dome” rocket defense system that is successfully knocking out enemy projectiles. (Click here to read more about the Iron Dome.)
Then, there are protests by right-wing Israelis that are totally against trading any land for peace. Yesterday, the Jerusalem Post reported, “Right-wing activists demonstrate holding banner “Israel can’t be divided” referring to proposal for negotiations based on 1967 lines.” (Click here for more from the Jerusalem Post.)
Wouldn’t it be nice if everyone could hold hands and work out a lasting peace deal? What is happening is just the opposite– the two sides are moving farther apart instead of closer together. I applaud the President for trying to get a peace deal, but you cannot have peace if both sides are not even talking. Israel has the most sophisticated and the best armed military in the entire Middle East. (And yes it has nuclear weapons, too.) If a war breaks out involving Israel, it would be the wild card of wild cards. There would be no way to predict an exact outcome, but it would surely be a disaster for the entire world.
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About the Author
Greg Hunter
Greg is the producer and creator of USAWatchdog.com. The site’s slogan is “analyzing the news to give you a clear picture of what’s really going on.” The site will keep an eye on the government, your financial interests and cut through the media spin. USAWatchdog.com is neither Democrat nor Republican, Liberal or Conservative. Before creating and producing the site, Greg spent nearly 9 years as a network and investigative correspondent. He worked for ABC News and Good Morning America for nearly 6 years. Most recently, Greg worked for CNN for shows such as Paula Zahn Now, American Morning and various CNN business shows.
Greg, Israel should not give up any land that it has, the so-called Palestinians could live anywhere within the vast region of Arabia, even Persia should the any such countries give up a few hundred miles of desert, even along a coastline. The president is simply, once again, playing the lefts general theme to leave Israel surrounded by its enemies once again. The outcome of such a peace deal will be the destruction of Israel, or at least the start of a very large war. How would we like it if Canada, our neighbor to the north, publicly announced our destruction and that we had no right to live? This is what Israel has to live with and one must admit Israel has shown more restraint that any country I know of with the daily and constant terrorist attacks they suffer. I, for one, and a Christian, support Israel and will continue to do so. The Palestinians no matter what is given to them will never be satisfied except for the destruction of the jewish state. I don’t understand how we can claim a war on terror and want a country to negotiate with them. The policy to continue to pander to the Palestinians will only make them more and more aggressive like a shark smelling blood in the water.
Thank you Art and Slingshot for weighing in on this one. I think they are moving towards war not peace. This will get much worse before it gets better.
Greg
Land for Peace. That was tried back in the late 1930″s and look what happened. I figure after all this “New Democracy” sets in, they will go after Israel. They do not want land. They want the Jews, DEAD!
Slingshot, well said, short, to the point, and exactly right on! Wish we could get some odds in Vegas I would bet the farm you are right.
With respect to a much larger war, our foolish president has likely sown the first seeds of it with his wreckless statements. His ideas are seen to be our weakness and lack of fortitude despite what he said in his later backpedal speech at the AIPAC show. When will the Jews of this country wise up and quit supporting and voting a partyline ticket? Iran desperately needs a nuke becaause, with so many nations attacking Isreals borders, it will have to resort to its nukes to survive. I have my doubts that this idiot in charge will have the round items to send military help to save Isreal; especially since Iran is building missile sites in Venezuela. I still say, this is the worst administration I have ever witnessed….May our Heavenly Father help us all. Oldguy
Change the word “it” to “Isreal” in “…it will have to resort…”. Sorry.
Hi Greg,
During high school I was an exchange student for a year in Israel and travelled the entire country more than once. I visited Gaza, the Golan Heights, other occupied territories, Syria and the Lebanese border. An important consideration missing in your post is water. Water is one of the most glaring issues: crops on the Israeli side, and dry land on the Palestine side. Currently, Israel controls all the water, even the aquifers under Palestine land. So, it’s not just the Golan Heights with mountainous peaks that should be in discussion, but Palestine should have a healthy water source, access to a port and therefore the means to thrive as a nation. Why not treat all as family and be willing to give that which might not be easy to give.
🙂 Diane
P.S. Based on a couple of Replies that just posted, I suggest we take a deep breath and re-examine the issues with a sense of compassion. If you had land, water, access to trade and other natural resources, would you be in a fight? Probably not. In fact, the lack of these basics might drive you nuts…thus, the manifestation of “Palestinian terrorists”. These complexities do not arise from attitudes alone; there is always a real basis for disagreements.
🙂 Diane
They could have water, land, and gold up their eyeballs and they still would want the Jews dead. No, not one more inch of land to the ruthless killers. By the way, Saudia Arabia has water which is distilled, they could go there.
Art, the land was siezed originally by Irgun, a very nasty Terrorist organisation much like Hamas, it was Irgun led by Manachem Begin that bombed the King David Hotel and murdered 97 people, thousands of Palestinians whose families had lived there for millennia were uprooted , their houses stolen, their families genocided and the helpless remains dumped in a concentration camp by the Israeli’s. You say they want the Jews dead, well in the last fifteen years the kill rate has been 132 Palestinians for every Israeli…. perhaps they are sick of being robbed , murdered , kept in concentration camps and that is why they want the Jews dead…. maybe you have another explanation.
The King David Hotel was the headquarters of the British Military in Israel at the time hence it was a legitimate military target in war. Am I sorry that they haven’t killed more Jews than Palestinians, NOPE. We kiiled many more Japanese and Germans than they killed Americans in WWII. DO you feel bad about that?
Thank you all for weighing in on this important subject. I tried to write this and go straight down the middle–some of you think I am for one side–some think I am on the other and some take this for what it was intended to be. This is a warning for how bad things might get no matter what side you take. I do thank you all for taking the time to comment no matter what your position. I also thank you all for your support.
Greg
I agree with you about the water Diane. However; Egypt is using desalinization plants. With all of the revenues from their oil sales, none of the oil rich nations are helping Palestine with their poverty and water problems. Maybe it pays to throw the Palestinians under the bus so as to have their plight to base their aggression on. Of course Hamas could reject weapons for food and water, but I don’t think they will.
Hello Diane:
Thank you for informing us about your special NGO tour of Israel as a leftard in training when you were a teenager. Of course Israel controls the aquifers in the Land of Israel. DUUHHH! Would the USA allow another nation to control its sources of water?
Thanks for letting us here in Israel know that the real plan of the hateful and the ignorant of the left is to divide Israel and leave here without water or a means to exist, in a sliver of a city-state along the Mediterranean coast.
Please read some history while you are busy opining here about the painful concessions that Israel must make to please the US policymakers. “Jordan” is a fictional country which never previously existed prior to WW-1, and it was created by the British from 80% of the Palestine Mandate land – which had been pledged to the creation of a Jewish homeland only five years previously at the end of the first world war and outlined in the Balfour Declaration of 1917.
But it is God Himself Who is the real reason for the existence of Israel, and His plans for His creation do not match up to what you plan for the world. Most Arabs who live here would be willing to live under the sovereign Jewish state, if only they were not financed by outside pressures to do otherwise. Let the world back off or suffer the punishments/disasters which will continue to arrive, such as economic collapse, earthquakes, tsunamis, floods, heat waves, tornados, and deadly fungus attacks.
Ultimately, because you wanted Israel’s destruction (without admitting it publicly, of course) you will have to pay the ultimate price. The USA is already in a path of decline and it will never recover from its huge burden of government debt, which is the size of one fourth of all money in the world.
Don’t say that you didn’t see the train wreck coming when the nuclear missiles land stateside from Venezuelan friends of “Iran.”
Greg, one thing I viewed when the two leaders were seated in front of the fireplace and discussing the issue was a leader and something else. Netanyahu appeared as a strong leader telling Obama what was and was not going to happen in his country, while Obama looked weak and seemed to have a hard time defending his position. Then came the speech the next day after his handlers had a chance to write speeches to allow him to recover from the disaster two days prior. One thing for certain, Israel is not going to buckle under to anyones pressure, including Obama’s who has not been a strong supporter of Israel during his time in office.
When a President’s own Congress will publically and treasonously turn on their own democratically elected leader to undermine him at the behest of a foreign ruler, that President’s foundation is very shaky and he knows it. These traitors support a foreign land’s welfare and interests before their own. Treason has become institutionalized.
“even the very elect will be deceived” and they have been, powerfully. The Khazar jews, most who are atheist, but use religion as a weapon for strategy on Believers (who Khazar zionists mock as “useful idiots”) have seduced the Christians as only Satan can.
It is pretty much moot to argue the point as it will be dismissed, but will mention it anyway.
“I know the blashpemy of them which say they are Judahites, and are not, but are the Synagogue of Satan.” Very, Very Few will have the grace to see through the zionist deception. Those who do, like Ted Pike, Fritz Springmeier etc will be given the Obama treatment and rendered irrelevant.
Paul G:
Apparently you are not able to correctly discern who is the real traitor of the United States: the president sitting with his feet up in the Oval Office.
You voted for your own undoing, Paul. Obama is the most anti-American president in the history of the USA, who does all that he can to destabilize America, undermine her allies, and to encourage her enemies. THAT is why he is viewed as “weak” – which is a misperception.
He is not weak, but he has a hidden agenda, which he learned in his Indonesian Madrassa as a good Muslim student. He may be American born, but he is a person whose personal vision and values are anti-American.
Did you see the American economy improve? No. It will not do so, as America is buying its own debt, and printing funny money. The worst depression with hyper-inflation may be in front of you.
Did you see America downsize its foreign involvement in the business of Islamic countries around the globe? No, but you did see and will see an increasing commitment in the four fronts: Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen and Lybia. Anyone who has precious resources that the US wants, or who threatens the global petro-dollar is a possible next target.
Hey RonP,
Your opinon is right-on. There will be no peace in Isreal until the Palestinians change their ideology.
Obama does not know how to perform diplomacy and this bungle proves it. What an idiot.
markm
The US funds both sides with hundred millions to billions…
Until the funding from all sources to both sides is cut off, the fighting will continue.
Can anyone explain why a conflict in WWII between two European peoples, results in a reward of land being given to the victims in Jerusalem? I’m sure there was plenty of real estate in available in Europe and if not in the U.S.
On top of that if your going to reward land in Jerusalem, what are you going to do with the people who are already living there? (sarcasm inserted here)I know, kill them, displace them without any plan of action to relocated or even have a meaningful debate of why that location and why that people…
Remember the U.N. (the league of justice of the world) didn’t even acknowledge Israel as a state in 1948. But of course we must blame the sanctioned, vilified, and suffering population of the Palenstinians. Were does the Hamas rank versus the IDF in military might? Who’s the underdog here?
Lastly to reply to Arty up there, I’m sure the so called Jews could live anywhere within the vast region of Arabia, any such countries (could) give up a few hundred miles of desert, even along a coastline. Or better yet Arty maybe the U.S. could assimilate all the Jewish and there would finally be peace.
Thanks Greg keep it up,
Mickey
Hi Mickey, How are things in Disneyland? Why don’t you suggest the answer for, as you put it, the “so called Jews” to the so called Palestinians?
Greg, The first thing is that Obama should have never said publicly that israel should go back to 1967 borders. This put a notion into everyone’s head that Israel should once again give up “land for peace”, which has turned out to be a total joke. You memtioned that Obama’s speech was a good one, but remember Obama speaks — he doesn’t say much, but he says it really well.
The land is covenanted between the Jewish People and God Almighty. There are numerous warnings about tampering with this land. Zecharaiah Chap. 12 vs. 2-3 promises all who burden themseleves with Jerusalem shall be cut to pieces and in Joel chap. 2 vs. 1-2, it is called “My Land” by God. Leaders of nations bring disastor and judgement upon their people by messing with this covenanted land they are poking God in the eye Zecharaiah chap. 2 vs. 8. There is more going on here than the average person understands and we are walking on extremely dangerous ground when we mistreat God’s special people in the earth. Be warned! Before you are all for dividing up (His Land), you had better get Biblically literate on the subject.
Gods wrath- or so they say- was visited on the US on 911, despite all the incredible money, gifts and carte blanche we have given to Israel since its founding. Some quoted the above scriptures on 911. But was it God’s wrath or the Satanic deviousness and vengence of men?
“Know the Truth and the Truth will set you free.”
Odigo says workers were warned of attack
By Yuval Dror 26.09.01 Haaretz
Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers received messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September 11 predicting the attack would happen, and the company has been cooperating with Israeli and American law enforcement, including the FBI, in trying to find the original sender of the message predicting the attack.
Micha Macover, CEO of the Tel Aviv company, said the two workers received the messages and immediately after the terror attack informed the company’s management, which immediately contacted the Israeli security services, which brought in the FBI.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRfhUezbKLw
No prrof that original message was ever sent. This is a big lie form beginning to end.
Correct, also, taking support away from Israel is a dangerous thing as it is written that those who curse Israel will be cursed and those who bless Israel will be blessed.
Why is it that God has special people? Aren’t we all his children?
Sorry, I can’t stomach this kind of rubbish.
Thank you, Grady.
Greg,
What you heard was Obama taking back what he said on Thursday that the Israeli’s should GO BACK to the old 1967 lines. That is what Bibi countered with. Obama changed his stance over the weekend…did he miss-speak Thursday or is he the sum of his choices and where do we stand as Americans? This skirmish is Christian vs. Arab or what is the oldest skirmish in mankind’s history the skirmish between muslims and christians. No end in sight on this one.
Thank you for your insights!
All the best!
Zionism didn’t get going till the late 1800’s, and things didn’t get ugly until after WWII when the Zionists living in London and New York convinced the victors of WWII for a little land. First Israel had to kick out the brits using terorism, then they kicked out the indigious people.
The line that “This battle Is as old as time” is propaganda. Same as that “Israel is the only democracy in the middle east” (it is actually a self declared theocracy).
We have been fed a steady diet of this propaganda for a long time.
Propaganda? You mean like, “America is a Democracy?” It is not.
Greg, I heard the 67 boarder statement and is was clear in my mind, he meant what he said, “return to 67 boarders”. His changed statement later was disengenious. His heart is with the Palenstinians
that’s simple enough to figure out, but the State Department pulled him back in political line for the time being.
The 67 borders is a non-starter – per Netanyahu’s statement. The Arab peace initiatives have always stated that the 1967 borders are a precondition. The part of the President’s speech that bothered me the most was that the resulting Palestinian state be ‘contiguous’.
If it is contiguous, what becomes of Israel? It will no longer be
a contiguous nation…
America is broke. We can no longer afford all the weapons and $ we ship to Israel. We should also get out of the peace process business. It is one big three card monty anyways. We help with peace, while religious zealots continue to build more settlements.
For all Americans reading this; put America first, second and third. Ask first what is good for America.
If Isreal was such a great friend, they would have let us know that Iraq did not have WMDs. Instead, they cranked up AIPAC and got us to attack. When the dollar finally collapses, try to remember that.
One ironic fact in Obamas speech. He mentioned the growing population of Arabs west of the Jordan River. Those guys are breeding like flys and Isreal will have to accept peace with it’s citizens and neighbors or have policies that are increasing racist.
I assume that the peace process is just a delay tactic to build more settlements. I’m surprised the Arabs answer the phone when we call with our next peace proposal.
Looks like the Arab people figured this out and are protesting at the Isreal borders. The get shot and killed, but I assume they will keep trying. We get fed propaganda that Iran is pulling the strings and is the instigator. The only proof of that is a quote from some IDF officer that just shot a bunch of protesters.
This will all seam like a big waste of time 50 years from now when the Arab citizens in Isreal are the clear majority. In general, let those idiots figure it out on thier own and stop trying to help (it’s obviously not working).
“Offenses must needs come; but woe unto him by whom it cometh.”
Looks like the time of Jacobs trouble is here and now. The battle for Jerusalem began about 11 years ago.
If you were to start by striking a line across the northeast corner of the Mediterranean sea over to somewhere in eastern Afghanistan and then back down across Saudi Arabia and end up on the southeast corner of the Mediterranean sea again to include the Sinai Peninsula, that would give you a pretty good picture of what Israeli borders will look like when this is all over.
Just goes to show you; don’t get greedy and take something that God promised to someone else just because world majority opinion makes it an easy take. It could cost you a lot more than you expected and you could lose the very thing you set out to gain.
I like what Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul has to say abou this. This is a conflict between Isreal and Palenstine, not the US. We need stop giving foreign aid to everyone (including Isreal) and stop sticking our noses where it doesn’t belong. Check out this interview with the good Dr. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFEfzoFWZUg&feature=player_embedded
The talk of raising the debt ceiling is directly related to our foreign policy. We have military bases all over the world and are managing at least 3 or 4 “conflicts” (wars). We simply don’t have the money to do this anymore.
Once again Greg is showing his true color and siding with Obama and the commie Dems because that’s what he is. Obama said in his speech that negotiation should return to the 1967 border and then backtrack in his AIPAC speech with this “And since my position has been misrepresented several times, let me reaffirm what “1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps” means. By definition, it means that the parties themselves -– Israelis and Palestinians -– will negotiate a border that is different than the one that existed on June 4, 1967.
We seem to be misinterpreting most of his speeches…either were stupid or playing us all for fools just like Greg is doing.
‘Israel is the wildcard but Jerusalem is the barn burner’
America is playing with unquenchable fire in their drive to divide Jerusalem which has always been the eternal capitol of the Jewish people.
‘There would be no way to predict an exact outcome, but it would surely be a disaster for the entire world.’
Greg,
It’s all very predictive if you are a serious student of the Bible.
I’ll give you just 1 example of how it is seriously damaging the U.S. while the majority of the population are asleep,clueless.
“It cut the city in half” Fire chief Mitch Randles,Joplin Missouri
And it shall happen in that day that I will make Jerusalem a very heavy stone for all peoples; all who would heave it away will surely be cut in pieces, though all nations of the earth are gathered against it.
Zechariah 12:3
Greg, let me make it simple by stating basic UNDISPUTABLE truths. Land was taken BY FORCE from indigenous people, Palestinians. They were not guilty of any sin against Jews. They had NO VOICE on the matter whatsoever.Basic justice requires compensation. I don’t care about “safety” of Israel. Anyone who says Israel will be left “defenseless” repeats baseless Zionist propaganda. No one can touch Israel, anyone who tries that asks to be wiped out “from the face of the earth”. Differences between the Israeli military might is so huge in comparison to ANY of its neighbors, it makes virtually impossible any attempt to win the war with Israel. On moral grounds SIMPLE UNIVERSAL JUSTICE requires that at the minimum Israel RETURNS the lands STOLEN from Arabs in ISRAELI INITIATED war of 1967. Yet, if they are still pushing “indefensible borders” bullshit, the solution is simple…. ONE COUNTRY FOR TWO PEOPLE WITH EQUAL RIGHTS…. but tell that to the Israeli racists or equally brainwashed Christian right in US.
To clear any ambiguity I am white European non-believer. If you wish feel free to call me anti-Semite. I don’t care; all I do care about is truth and justice.
Peace;
Land for Peace
Neville Chamberlain in 1938 appeased Hitler by giving him the Sudetenland areas of Czechoslovakia. Soon after Poland was invaded and WW2 started. It was meant to be an example of history as those hell bent on an agenda will say or do anything to achieve their goal.
Come on now? Do you really think there would be peace if the Palestinians are granted viable land.
I was in Haifa in 1979 for the signing of the Accords and they had plenty of security. Why so, if they want peace?
So what does this President know of this? He knows the USA has 57 states. Hmmmmm? Not to mention the Jews and the Arab Nations have been going at it over 2000 years. Obama knows better I’m sure.
I guess Palestine was the low man on the totem pole and the Jewish State was born. The world was trying to rebuild.
Have the USA back off and let them go at it. Really, lets see if the God of Israel will defend them. He has done a pretty good job so far. I have not forgot the attack on the USS Liberty by the Israeli Air Force. Would the Arab world been better off if Hitler succeeded, considering they were not of Aryan blood?
Obviously a very huge lack of understanding the scriptures. We live in amazing times. Before the Children of Yisrael went into the land, Moses told them their whole history in advance. They would enter the land, prosper, forget God and be unthankful, provoke God to anger and judgement, be driven out into the 4 corners of the earth and mistreated with nowhere to call their home and then in the latter days, return to their land and receive their King. They had one other exile for 70 years before the long exile and both times, all traces of their culture was burnt down & scraped away. No other culture or people have ever been scattered for 2000 years and then come back to their original homeland or use their original language especially after barely surviving the ethnic cleansing/genocide of Nazi Germany. They are now the 5th most powerful military in the world and will survive everything thrown at them by the “world community” until their King returns as promised. The votes in the United Nations are always the whole world against Yisrael except for a few tiny countries and the veto of the U.S. In the end, it is God who will put a hook into the jaw of their enemies and drag them down to Har Megiddo, (Ezekiel Chapters 38 & 39 + Zechariah chapter 14). God promises to settle the score with their tormentors and bless their friends which are few. When you see Yisrael on the map, you are seeing a miracle and the sure word of Prophecy from God. Baruch Haba Beshem Ha Adon YHWH. Come Adonai Yahshua HaMoshiach. Amen
Couldn’t have said it better myself. The bloggers above who not believe what you wrote will soon see what happens when Israel is attacked again and what happens to the countries who curse Israel.
Please stop reciting old testament to make a point about modern day Israel they are not one and the same. Christ’s death (you know the one Jews don’t accept) has made that a moot point as He is the King, He has returned and there will be no more kings or judges. This idea that the Jews are still the chosen people is one pushed by Zionists who prey on peoples lack of Biblical understanding and use them to their advantage.
Does Israel have the right to exist? Yes. Do they have a right to defend themselves? Yes. We should stay completely out of this mess. It will never, ever, resolve itself. This is between Israel and it’s neighbors. They have shown they can handle themselves just fine. Stay out of it!
== Proof Positive of the Danger Inherent in Theocracy =
As if it were a mediator between the Hatfields and the McCoys, America keeps throwing itself into the middle of two theocratic states (Israel and would-be state Palestine).
Add to this untenable morass the overpopulation on both sides, and you get exactly what we see today: bitter, unrepentant hostility and the attendant desire to avoid, at all costs, any negotiated settlement.
These two warring parties have learned little (if anything) from the senseless sectarian warfare of Northern Ireland. — Larry W. Bryant (24 May 11)
There ya go Larry. Blame it on religion as usual. Guess you missed the part about land for peace huh?
So let me get this straight. You believe that if we kicked God out of our lives, then the world would be at peace and mankind would not go to war any longer? Have I got that right? What a fool one would have to be to miss the fact that God has already been kicked out of every basic institution of man and all that is left is selfishness, greed, war, murder and sexual promiscuity with the nations of the earth still claiming to be legitimate in their governance.
If you really want to see what happens when God is kicked out of society, then just stick around. You can’t imagine in your wildest nightmares just how bad things are about to be.
There are so many books by Israel authors that you could read to get a clear history. I recommend “The Iron Wall” by Avi Shlaim. Let an Israeli historian detail how Israel sabotaged every effort at peace from the beginning. You can read how Israel has no interest in peace. Peace would stop their process of “putting facts on the ground.” That’s what all the settlements are–an excuse to say, hey, you can’t take this away from us (even though we took it from the Palestinians).
As for those who want to know where the Jewish people “came from”, I recommend “The Invention of the Jewish People” by Shlomo Sand. Another Israeli historian. Oops, most modern Jews are descended from converts in the middle east and eastern Europe. There was no forced Jewish exile in the first century.
And, as Mickey Mouse said, could someone please explain why the Palestinians who had absolutely nothing to do with events in Europe should give up any of their land to “solve” a problem that took place entirely in Europe?
Avi Shlaim makes it clear: the Israelis had their chances for peace. They didn’t really want them. The Israelis don’t want the Palestinians to have a ‘right of return’ to their own lands. Can you imagine if a European politician said Jews shouldn’t have a right to return to Europe?
We can mash it up anyway we want. We can call people whose land was stolen terrorists for wanting to hold onto it. It doesn’t matter because it is too late. If it hasn’t become clear to the Israeli or American governments yet, the rest of the world knows what CogitoMan says: there will be ONE free and democratic state where Israel and Palestine are today and all of its citizens will have equal rights.
BTW, in the ‘be careful what you wish for category’: Israel wanted Iraq & Hussein taken out as a major player in the Mid-East and the U.S. (with its own reasons) was willing to do it for them. Big time. With lots of depleted uranium. Which makes its way through the air to…Israel. And the Israelis used DU in Lebanon, even though the winds blew it back to Israel. Dr. Christopher Busby of the Low Level Radiation Campaign has reported that the sperm count in young Israeli men has fallen 40% in less than ten years. By 2020 there will be no new Israeli people. Peace would have been a better alternative.
The U.S. shouldn’t get involved in other nations’ border disputes. It is time for us to totally withdraw from the Middle East (including economic and military support) and let the nations there sort things out on their own.
All this biblical crap is utter BS and who cares about this piece of desert anyway, its the ugliest place on earth. The whole thing could sink in the ocean and nobody would care so how that affects the rest of the world I don’t know. Until Israel stops stealing land from the Arabs then nothing is every going to change. What’s so wrong about giving back that what you stole. I guess there must be some biblical answer for this also but who cares.
CogitoMan -The Arabs(Palestinians)already have 22 nation states that take up hundreds of square miles if not millions and Israel(Jews)has a very tiny sliver of land that everyone wants to cut up and feed to the greedy,intolerant,bloodthirsty monsters who surround them.
It’s not about land it’s about Islam’s intolerance for non-Muslims in their neighborhood.
Only a blind fool can’t see the truth and injustice.
Why is that ?
The answer is because the hypocrite nations especially the extremely arrogant and proud Western ones are on a suicidal path to destruction.
They have angered the God of Israel and His anger now boils over into great wrath and destruction against those who push the Jews to suicide with their evil neighbors who do not seek peace but Israel’s extermination.
Marcel, WOW! Yes, God is angry and just watch this country back away from Israel and see what happens here, it won’t be pretty. Every step this country backs away from Israel in its support will be another nail in America’s coffin. Its happening as we speak.
Greg… study history. In the U.N. declaration dated November 1947, two states were created. The Jews were given what is now called Israel, and the Palestinians were given what is now called Jordan. The Arabs did not/do not want that and immediately began a war that has lasted 63 yrs.
What Obama and other governments propose is preposterous. It would be like other nations demanding the U.S. return California to Texas back to Mexico, the Louisiana Purchase to France, Florida to Mississippi to Spain, and the Northwest Territories to England; leaving only the original 13 Colonies as the United States. ONLY A FOOL WOULD AGREE TO OR DEMAND THAT.
The Jews and Arabs/Israelis and Palestinians will not get along until one of them are completely decimated. And it won’t be the Jews! If America keeps doing what it’s doing – we’ll go down with all the other nations.
You wrote, “Hamas is considered a terrorist organization that seeks the destruction of Israel.” It might have been more accurate to say that Hamas is “considered by some to be a terrorist organization”–and that some includes Israel, the U.S., and the UN. However, if Hamas is a terrorist organization, so were the Irgun and the Sturn Gang, Jewish guerrilla organizations that used the same tactics against the Brits in Palestine before Israel’s 1948 creation that Hamas now employs against the Israeli government.
Moreover, Hamas has a very large “social services” arm that provides a great deal of non-military assistance to the Palestinians and, importantly, Hamas won the “democratic election” in Palestine fair and square, an outcome that produces embarrassment and cognitive dissonance among the neocon and extreme Christian Right segments the U.S. electorate.
I believe Ron Paul has it exactly right. This is none of our business. It is unfortunate that so many good people on the Christian Right do not understand that Zionism and Judaism are not the same thing, a blizzard of Israeli propaganda to the contrary not withstanding.
Let us not forget that those who brought Zionism to the world also brought the tragity of Communism to the world. Netanyahu wants to build a monument to the “RED ARMY” and it’s 500,000 Jewish members. This is the same Red Army who slaughtered more than 10 Million men, wommen and children in the Ukraine.
Let us not forget we are speaking of the same Israel who murdered 34 American sailors an d wounded and crippled more than 100 other American crew members of the unarmed USS LIBERTY. No apology, no reperations to the families of these crew members. Then we have the traitor Jonathan Pollard who Israel paid to steal U.S. military secrets.
The best thing American can do is divorce itself from Israel. The only Presidential candidated that can be counted on to end this “tail waging the dog” is Ron Paul. We must return sanity to American foreign policy!
“I believe Ron Paul has it exactly right” That is why he does not stand a chance to get elected…. AIPAC would never hear of this…
Obviously a divisive issue. I’m not a scholar of the issue. But a few things seem clear to me:
1) Israelis/Jews have displaced Palestinians over the past 60+ years–the notion that it was empty before the Israelis got there is preposterous, as are 2000-year-old property claims;
2) Over the past ~10 years the ratio of dead Palestinians to dead Jews is about 100 to 1;
3)the US provides vast financial and military backing to Israel;
4) Israel continues to expand and make life un-liveable for the Palestinians;
5) Israel has conducted some real atrocities in recent years, in southern Lebanon in 2006, in Gaza on the eve of Obama’s assumption of office, christmas 2008, and against the ‘Gaza Freedom Flotilla’ more recently;
6) Israel also has committed an atrocity against its benefactor, the U.S.–Remember the USS Liberty! (see retired CIA analyst Ray McGovern’s writing on the topic);
7) In spite of point #6, the US has given unconditional support to Israel, even going so far as to prop up dictators like Egypt’s Mubarak (basically an act of war against Egyptians) for decades.
Maybe the Israelis have some good arguments on their side too?
A common argument is that Arabs/muslims want to destroy the Jews. I strongly doubt this assertion is true; it strikes me as hyperbolic rhetoric designed to give Israel a blank check. But even if it were true, the Israeli approach seems like madness to me, completely unsustainable. What possible positive outcome can Israel expect over the long run via their current approach? If I were an Israeli, I’d be looking for another place to live.
Supporters of the status quo in Israel–how about a bullet list of facts and arguments in favor of your perspective? Aside from the simple assertion that Arabs/muslims want to destroy Jews. And if you feel that assertion is the key point, please at least provide a sound argument to convince me of it.
And BTW, I have zero interest in faith-based biblical ‘arguments’. Those aren’t arguments, and I don’t share your faith; I don’t expect you to share my faith, nor should you expect others to share yours. But if we can’t at least all agree on fundamental concepts of decency and justice by which we all ought to live, then conflict is the only possibility. Hopefully we can all agree that theft and murder are wrong.
Peace is what is needed, but I see no evidence of good-faith negotiation toward that end. It looks like a farce in which Israel engages as it presses ahead with long-term expansionist plans. The US and its news media back Israel in this, treating all these so-called peace talks as if they were credible and serious intitiatives, while distorting the info on who’s done what to whom. I don’t see why the US should help Israeli expansionists create PR smokescreens, or provide them with diplomatic cover. We appear to do so because of the vastly disproportionate influence Israel has on US policy, through many channels, including AIPAC.
Well, I’m not Jewish or Palestinian, christian or muslim. As an American, I would vote for a hands-off approach. No $ or support for either side. But I do worry what would happen if Israel felt it no longer had US support, and felt its back is against the wall. Given their trauma from the holocaust and their track record over the past several decades, I think the Israelis are capable of just about anything and, as Greg mentioned, they have nuclear weapons.
Grady,
Let me add Phil Giraldi to Ray McGovern… http://original.antiwar.com/giraldi/2011/05/18/some-questions-for-bibi/
When will Poland be going back to the 1939 borders?
“When will Poland be going back to the 1939 borders?”
Take that up with the Russians….
does anyone really think this thousand year tribal war will ever end? Lets be honest … it won’t until one side is eliminated …..
the absurbitiy of religion … “my God is bigger than your God”
I think Americans should think about first give back Texas and the lower parts of the US to the countries they stole this land from. Also most of the central US is currently being occupied illegally since it was stolen from American Indians and they were placed in reservations.
And if the US doesn’t give back the land I think Mexico has the right to invade the US, drive them into the sea and kill those that can swim.
But of course America doesn’t teach that they stole land from Mexico and American Indians. All they teach is that Israel is the occupier and the poor Palestinians are the victims.
The difference is that the Jews lived in Israel 2000 years ago and have a ancestral link to the land, the US are all of European decent and have no link to the land at all which makes their occupation even worse.
Brad,
Your knowledge of history is rather …eh… impressively lacking…ever heard of the The Texas Revolution or Texas War of Independence? Stolen lands?
We cannot change the distant past but we have to deal with the present. The fact is Israel cannot have its cake and eat it too…
I seem to recall that Israel gave up the Gaza strip with millions of dollars worth of greenhouses and equipment so that the beloved Moslems would have ready made businesses in growing flowers to sell to the world. The beloeved moslems tore down the greenhouses and stole the equipment for their personal uses, and have been firing thousands of katusha rockets into Israel ever since.
These beloved, peaceful moslems, only want the right thing. They want peace. They only way they are going to get peace is if every Jew on the planet is dead. That’s called peaceful negotiation. If only the world could understand. Hmmm.
nationalist….
Ever heard the term, ignorance is bliss? You just proved it…
I recognize the arrogance of the Israelis that say “not one inch to the killers.”
Previously this sort of rhetoric came from the Nazis. Hitler was to them a true hero who did unify and restore national pride… what’s wrong with that? Nothing.
It’s the fucking arrogance.
Regardless of the happenings on the road to here, the Israelis occupy the moral swamp in this moment and have done so generally.
I will demonstrate and show solidarity to stand against such arrogance and lack of respect for fellows.
Visited the evil state of Israel in the early nineteen eighties. Very nice place, wonderful food and people. What happened? It does not seem that the horrible bastards spouting here are any resemblance.
May I suggest that your elite are so cleaver that they will be a cause for your hatred until the third and fourth generation (Torah), but when the healing begins is as we can all see in the hands of the mightiest “Israel” and your chosen path is the reason god despises you (I know this and I am an atheist).
So stop resembling a mad mix of the Nazis and the horrible pictorial propaganda they put out about you and get your fucking house in order because growing numbers of the rest of us on the planet are fed up with you self centered warmongering attitude.
They shout their taunts in uneducated poverty stricken ignorance, what is your fucking excuse Goliath?
P.S. Would have removed the slang. Think God is smiling through it’s teeth?.. We are not!
You know, I’ve re read my comments and what everyone else said.
I have been too harsh. I apologize.
Israel is a tiny country under attack from all sides. Let’s leave her alone. Stupid of uss to judge someone before standing in his shoes.
Please kindly explain Palestinian Historical land, and don’t confuse the Philistines with the Palestinians – two different races and people.
Please explain….
Yes, evil Israel…
The producer of much of the technology in your cell phone
The creator of your Windows OS
The innovator of many medical devices that have saved or improved lives of millions of Americans
The first country to send MASH units to Haiti, Turkey et al
The leader in sustainable agriculture
A world leader in renewable energy technologies
The savior of many, many Palestinian lives (but not newsworthy!)
And on and on…
Hating a country is as easy as hating a person – focus on their faults.
Loving a country is as easy as loving a person – focus on their virtues.
Guess who said it:
“The difference between you and us is you love life but we love death.”
“We may forgive you one day for killing our children, but we will never forgive you for forcing us to kill your children.”
“The prime minister will return home from the United States without major developments to show for himself. He is leading Israel and the Palestinians into a new round of violence, along with Israel’s isolation and deep disagreement with the American administration. The time has come for the large numbers of those in Israel who seek peace to be heard. Israel deserves a different leader.” ….Netanyahu wasted his chance to present a vision for peace….Haaretz Editorial
Played well with the US Congress bought and paid for by AIPAC, but not back at home…. Both sides need to get real…
One last thing… June 8th…. USS Liberty… Come clean GOI….
Sometimes, I just can’t with the audacity of Europeans. I swear half the world’s problems, not to mention the two world wars, all root in Europe.
Slingshot, well said, short, to the point, and exactly right on! Wish we could get some odds in Vegas I would bet the farm you are right.