Who Really Owns Your Home?
By Greg Hunter’s USAWatchdog.com
There are some big questions facing the real estate market after the foreclosure fraud story exploded in the last few weeks. The number one question for anyone who has a mortgage is “Who really owns your home?” This would be simple to answer before the mortgage-backed security (MBS). These MBS’s were mortgages that were bundled together and sold to investors such as pension and bond funds by big banks. They were considered as safe as U.S. Treasuries but paid a much higher interest rate. The big banks received gigantic profits from MBS’s especially in the 2005 to 2008 time frame when most of the bundling was done. It was all about the fees, and damn the paperwork. Recently, Congressman Alan Grayson said, “It appears that on a widespread and probably pervasive basis they (the banks) did not take the steps necessary to own the note . . . which means that in 45 out of the 50 states they lack the legal right to foreclose. . . . So they have simply created a system where servicers hire foreclosure mill law firms whose business is to forge documents showing or purporting to show they have a legal right to foreclose.” I wrote about this recently in a post called “Could Foreclosure Fraud Cause Another Banking Meltdown?”
Guess what? Some investors are already demanding their money back from companies like Countrywide Mortgage because it didn’t maintain “accurate loan records,” and that is “in violation of underwriting guidelines.” This week, investors asked for $47 billion back in a demand letter delivered to Countrywide! Because Bank of America bought Countrywide a couple of years ago, B of A is on the hook for the refund. (Click here for the complete story from PR Newswire.) This kind of investor outrage is just the beginning and will only intensify in the days and weeks to come. Will the Fed be forced to, once again, save the big banks by printing trillions of dollars? Who knows, but the banks cannot afford to buy back all their sins without going bust!
This will, also, further cloud the chain of custody for documents that prove who the rightful owner of a property is. Adam Levitin, a Georgetown University Law Professor, said last week on CNBC, “The problems coming out in the foreclosure process raise questions about whether, and frankly this is frightening, but whether anyone in the U.S. has clear title to their property.”
Questions about true ownership are why there have been calls to have a nationwide moratorium on foreclosures, but community banks are crying foul. According to Frank Sorrentino, a New Jersey community banker, only the big banks that securitized mortgages should halt foreclosures. Sorrentino claims community banks didn’t securitize their loans but held them in the bank. That gives them clear access to the original documents that should allow them to foreclose on deadbeat borrowers. Sorrentino appeared on CNBC in the same segment as professor Levitin. He said, “When that foreclosure from the big bank winds up in court and they can’t prove they have the proper documents, then the court should throw it out. If you are sloppy at what you do, then you should pay the price.” But will big banks be forced to pay the price?
A Senior Editor at CNBC named John Carney wrote a piece called “Sorry Folks, The Put-Back Apocalypse Ain’t Gonna Happen.” Carney wrote last Friday, “Here’s what is going to happen: Congress will pass a law called something like “The Financial Modernization and Stability Act of 2010” that will retroactively grant mortgage pools the rights in the underlying mortgages that people are worried about. All the screwed up paperwork, lost notes, unassigned security interests will be forgiven by a legislative act.” (Click here to read the complete idiotic CNBC article.)
It’s clear Carney did not do much research to write this piece of fantasy. For this to work, you would have to change real estate document law, tax law and criminal law. And as Carney says, that “ain’t gonna happen.” Let me briefly explain.
The laws surrounding real estate documents require paper documentation signed by notaries in every single state. There is no way Congress can wave a magic legislative wand and retroactively fix a chain of custody problem. It is simply not practical and not legal.
When it comes to the creation of a mortgage-backed security, what is really being created is a Real Estate Mortgage Investment Conduit or REMIC. A REMIC is also considered a trust. There are special IRS tax laws surrounding these entities that require paper documents that prove ownership and validate the trust. Without documents, you do not have a valid trust; and without a valid trust, you will not conform to IRS tax laws. This is a very large civil and, possibly, criminal problem for the big banks. Congress cannot supply the banks with a “get out of jail free” card. Financial writer Karl Denninger wrote a very good and detailed post about REMIC’s. (Click here to read it.)
Finally, William Black, a white collar criminologist and economics professor at the University of Missouri Kansas City, says, the ratings agencies gave MBS’s AAA ratings “without doing anything . . . the loan files didn’t even exist.” Black calls this “fraud” and “deceit,” and it was known at the very highest levels of the ratings agencies. (Click here to see Professor Black’s presentation from 10/16/10.) There is no way Congress is going to pass legislation that will legalize mortgage fraud as a way of doing business.
This brings me back to my original question. Who really owns your home? If your mortgage was securitized (and 60 million homes were), then the answer is going to take you a very long time to get. The foreclosure fraud story will be measured in years, not weeks or months. One thing is for sure, the record number of foreclosures for September (102,134) is going to be a high watermark.
Please Support Our Direct Sponsors Below
Who Support The Truth Tellers
About the Author
Greg Hunter
Greg is the producer and creator of USAWatchdog.com. The site’s slogan is “analyzing the news to give you a clear picture of what’s really going on.” The site will keep an eye on the government, your financial interests and cut through the media spin. USAWatchdog.com is neither Democrat nor Republican, Liberal or Conservative. Before creating and producing the site, Greg spent nearly 9 years as a network and investigative correspondent. He worked for ABC News and Good Morning America for nearly 6 years. Most recently, Greg worked for CNN for shows such as Paula Zahn Now, American Morning and various CNN business shows.
If this problem were indeed as serious as it appears, the banking infex would be falling like a stone. Yet it isn’t:
http://stockcharts.com/c-sc/sc?s=$BKX&p=D&yr=2&mn=0&dy=0&i=p55828601035&r=1545
So, apparently, the market thinks that John Carney is right. I’d trust a chart over anyone’s opinion or fundamental arguments any time.
Thank you Vess for your insight on the banks.
Greg
I predict after elections congress will pass a bill that will allow all of this to go away. It seems like the simple way out of a huge mess. The bill may infuriate the public, but people have short memories and will move on to something else rather large that happens in the news. When banks own the government, we lose! (unless you work high up in the bank).
Luke,
I am going to cut and paste my reply to Keith, because my answer is the same.
So Congress is going to change hundreds of years of real estate document law in each and every state? Along with IRS tax laws broken, trust laws broken, security laws broken and on top of that, make crimes retroactively not crimes anymore? That’s a lot even for Congress. I think the path of least resistance is more likely printing money to paper over the problem. I mentioned that in the post. I hope you are wrong on Congress because if they do change all of these laws to comfort the criminal banksters, we might as well change the name of the country to the United States of Crime. Thank you for your comment and as I always say “Good men can disagree.” Thank you for your comment.
Greg
It’s safest to assume that whatever name is written on the “pay to” coupon for your monthly mortgage payment is the owner.
As fun as this is to debate this topic & watch it unfold, we should think twice about defaulting because if you keep making payments, you’ll eventually have a paid for home that can be sold, borrowed against or passed down.
If you’re feeling a little defiant and cease making payments, good luck selling your home in 10 or 15 years (if you’re not evicted before that time) because THAT will obscure who the owner is very effectively!
Dave and Mark,
Thank you both for weighing in.
Greg
This response shows a sheer lack of knowledge concerning mortgage loan securitization! In securitized loans your IOU promissory note and deed of trust are seperated. They become commodities to be bought and sold. They are 2 different entities rendering your loan an unsecured debt! These loans are bifurcated! The IOU is sold off away from the Deed of Trust. It too is sold off to servicers to collect from you monthly. The servicing rights are evidenced by a pooling and servicing agreement. I pay my loan payments to one of the biggest fraudulant servicers out there…hint aka Fairbanks Capital! They were sued by the FTC in ’03 for fraud. They got a tiny slap on the wrists wwith no charges! Yep, got a mere 44 million dollar judgement (nothing to them) and went right back to biz as usual! The FTC refuses to enforce current breech of contract & go after them for Best Practices, FDCPA and RESPA violations! The servicer who you pay each month DOES NOT OWN YOUR LOAN NOTE! They collect for the “holder/owner”…or are supposed to! The problem is in many cases these pools where the loans are thrown into have been paid off and the servicer pockets payements defrauding investors. Your loan note may be owned by many investors all over the globe! How to find them all?! See the Ellington case, Austin TX where Select Portfolio Servicing Investors sued the servicer for breech of contract collecting & mismanaging the loans the loans! The case was transferred to NY courts and appears to be in limbo at present. Federal laws need to ENFORCED to protect the 15th ammendment for property rights. The rule of law no longer matters! Laws are there and no one enforces them! My loan note ORIGINATOR went bankrupt and a servicer collects each month. They REFUSE to give me the name, address and phone number of my loan note owner/holder under FDCPA! Why? Will I find my pool closed down? SO, where is my money going to? THE DEBT COLLECTOR SERVICER? MOST LIKELY! They can not give me the title especuially if my original loan note is destroyed! Like to see anyone here pay off a car and not get the title papers! Better yet, accept a photo copy! Not to mention they are breaking the rule of law by failing to assign these mortgages in counties across the USA! The losses are in the billions causing property tax increases! They evade IRS law too! IRS LAW states you must show ownership and chain of title to collect! If you and I did that…JAIL! Clouded titles is what this causes! So, a trust (not an investor/human being) has a legal contract with me from the closing?! I closed with what I thought was a bank/originator not some trust! It was fraud! It was all done in reverse! I was lied to! See Neil Garfield living lies blog to find the real truth out!
Donna,
This is a wonderful piece of work here. Everybody should read this twice to get a feel on how enormously screwed up the housing market really is. Thank you very much for taking the time to write this comment.
Greg
Greg-
This mortage situation should be alarming for every single home owner. Thank you for your continued efforts to bring this to light.
Last week I came across this website Where’s the Note at http://action.seiu.org/page/speakout/wheresthenote
I decided to test Wells Fargo, who I send my mortgage payment to and see if they can proove up my note and if they really do own my loan. The process is simple with the letter already drafted. If I get a response I will report back. If not I will take steps thru an attorney and see what happens. I have never been a day late on my mortgage and in fact pay extra each month towards the principal. But with all the criminal mortgage activity I feel it is my responsibility to challenge the bank. They are guilty until proven innocent!
Mark,
Yes, kindly advise us what WFB says. Since they’re a major player in the mortgage market, the results of your inquiry will be most supportive for everyone (legally as well and informatively).
🙂 Diane
Mark, unless you are planning not to pay, what is the point of this exercise? I have the letter where my mortgage was transferred to another company. I am paying the same number of payments in the same amount. But then being the pack rat that I am, I have a copy of the promissory note from when I bought this place in this place in 2004.
I am curious as to what you hope to gain from this exercise in futility. If you didn’t pay cash for your house then you owe somebody for it. Are you looking for a free lunch? Are you looking for a loop hole to keep from paying and maybe get a free house? Not likely. I am just glad you don’t owe me.
I have a home mortgage myself. The reason I want to know if they have a title is when I pay it off. Do I get the house or is it still subject to a deluded derivative that a title may never be produced.
Paul,
Who knows? This is why this a gigatic FUBAR. Call your mortgage company and see what they say. Please let us know how it turns out. Thank you.
Greg
Guilty until proven innocent? I seem to recall my people fighting a war of rebellion over that one.
Really George? The patriot act should be enough to show you that we are all guilty until proven innocent. Here’s an example, when driving in your car, if you happen you notice blue and red flashing lights behind you….you are by the letter of the law, UNDER ARREST AT THAT MOMENT, whether you go to jail or not, or have done anything wrong. We had to GIVE the banks a trillion dollars and now much much more to rectify this…yes, they are guilty of fraud until they provide the note…not that they will spend one minute in jail as you or i would. Hope that helps understand the context of what Mark was saying.
Why the hay is the SEIU acting as a go-between in this?? Color me suspicious, but given the SEIU’s highly political nature, I’d be wary of submitting information to them. Everything is smoke’n’mirrors these days. Zero Hedge posted this SEIU link, and many inferred it might be a data mining gimmick.
Having said this, you go Mark! If you’re close to paying anything off, you’ll want to know if your note is out there and you might want to hire a lawyer. Check this link out:
http://4closurefraud.org/2009/10/18/foreclosure-fraud-guide-to-looking-up-public-records-for-fraud/
Geofizz,
Thank you for the comment, info and link!
Greg
So how far a stretch would it be for the ( soon to be overthrown ) Congress to legislate; ownership of all questionable government backed mortgaged properties, ownership, back to the government? A Rhodesia style fix here would have seemed just the answer to shore up the Obamanation’s budget problems.
Redistribution on the ready.
Hoppe,
That seems very possible to me also.
Greg
Hoppe
I guess I should remind you that this all started a while back and was discovered in 2004. The folks that brought this to the attention of the government were replaced. If and When this so called overthrow happens, the same folks that swept this under the rug will be back in office. Hooray for us! It seems that we lose no matter which incompetent group of greedy self serving individuals is in power.
Pretty sad to call myself an american these days
And the fall from grace begins
George,
Amen to that brother.
Greg
“There is no way Congress is going to pass legislation that will legalize fraud as a way of doing business. ”
You sure about that? I say your wrong that they will pass legislation why do I say that
Let’s recap shall we the telcom’s wiretap everyones phone a felony what did congress do passed legislation giving immunity to the them!
Oh ya don’t forget that they just passed thu the congress that notary bill that gave them immunity but the pez veto it
So are you still standing by that quote ? If you are your a fool
Let me try to educate you a long long time ago the gov used to go after organized crime. Now the bad guys where getting sick of getting busted so they said hey ! Let’s use our power & money to get our guys in the mayor office it worked hay let send are kids to the best law enforcement schools and put them in as top cop they did so now the mob is the gov!! GET IT?
I so sure of them doing this I’ll bet you a 10 OZ bar of gold if I’m wrong what do you say want take my bet sucker?.
Shadowman,
The quote is mine. As I pointed out in the post Congress cannot simply change one law to make this all go away. They would have to pass several. I just don’t think they’re going to do that and I don’t think they are going to make Fraud legal. The more likely scenario would be a mass bailout from the Fed. This is why gold and silver are going up now. It is all the current and future money printing going on to paper over mistakes and fraud. On the other hand, this thing has gotten so crazy you might be right but I hope you are not. There would be severe unintended consequences if Congress tries to pass multiple legislations that sanction fraud.
Hi Greg,
They’re rather blinded by fear and greed, so creating bogus legislation is a possibility. Surely, we’re going to witness a terrific battle here, and we’re counting on you to help keep us informed. The media will undoubtedly be influenced by the banking cartel, since they provide the funding. There’ll also be a lot of blame to go ’round, since this is the default behavior of the government reps, the bankers, the lawyers, and others that we’ve witnessed repeatedly.
At some point, the house of cards will fall, but not without an enormous fight and clinging to the illusion of power, control, money, and the rest of the untenable qualities by those guys. It’ll even be painful to watch. But, truth, love and compassion will prevail, and we’ll live to see an Age of Enlightenment after the purge. That is the nature of the good qualities, they’re significantly stronger than the negative ones, and we can always depend on this truth.
🙂 Diane
Greg,
I appreciate your site.
The facts reporting e.g. Williams- SHADOWSTATS.com many qoutes, Sinclair, etc. and your comments on them interweaved I really enjoy.
With respect to the mortgage “consumer lust/lender fraud”- in general (but not ALL) the two parties are to blame.
Question- Is it “right” to walk away from the commitment you made to a lender regardless of an attorney giving you the loophole to get out?
Answer- I could give it, but without the judicial/governmental system acknowledging and agreeing with the source of this truth, it will not be recieved… “Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.” Proverbs 23:9
Kindest Regards,
Bruce
Thank you Joe Bloski.
I also want you to know
That I have great respect for you I think your a good man and that is why it’s hard for you to see the truth that 99% of the gov are criminals
This famous saying,,,,,,, None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Thank you Shadowman. God help us all.
Greg
You know the lien holder of your house it’s the one pay your monthly mortgage. This foreclosure debacle is another ploy for bums to get free housing by act of congress.
I read in yahoo news how this got started from a homeowner that missed payment on her mortgage and the bank foreclose on her. He asked for help and some former bank lawyer checked that the signer didn’t check the paperwork before signing and that invalidated the foreclosure according to law. So this situation will be easy to remedy by the banks all they have to do is check the papers on every home being foreclosed. Yes it will take longer time to do that.
Chow,
A lot longer. Thank you for your insight.
Greg
Hi Greg,
“Financial writer Karl Denninger wrote a very good and detailed post about REMIC’s. (Click here to read it.)”
FYI – Your link to this article didn’t post. Kindly reinsert, if possible, since REMICs being a trust is seriously important and you’re right on about compliance with Trust laws.
🙂 Diane
Diane Carol Mark,
Sorry, the link did not take but it is in there now. Thank you for pointing that out and thank you for your participation in this site!!!
The question isn’t “who owns the home?” The mortgagee owns the home. The real question is “does the mortgagor have a perfected first lien on the home?” The answer to this question in most cases for securitized mortgages is probably not because the proper assignments were not made to transfer lienholder interest during the securitization process.
The solution is to find a way to cure the lack of lien perfection so the foreclosure process can proceed where warranted (1.e. default).
Good point Mr. Brick. You sound like a pro.
Greg
Greg,not only are the banksters that committed fraud,the rating agencies did to,knowing all along these MBS were full of bad loans,then selling these as investments to Pensions that fund the Big Unions that got Special Treatment from Obamacrats! Another bomb shell has yet to be told by the democrats, the Dems have a bill (H.R.3936) that has over 50 backers right now,but it may be more because the dems wont talk about it before the Nov elections. I must say,Jim Sinclair does not miss anything,there is a link on his site that explains why the Democrats do not want those running against them to know this & now we know why.The unions that supported Obama & are still pouring tons of money to keep the dems in power have a lot to lose. The amount of fraud is stunning & you can judge for yourself,I will post the link from JSMINESET.COM that explains it better that I can.
(http://www.redstate.com/laborunionreport/2010/10/19/armageddon-what-democrats-are-hiding-why-they-are-really-scared/.
Greg, if democrats were running a corporation,their actions would be criminal. That is the truth that millions have fell for by the smooth talking Obama machine that has helped to sink our nation into a economic nightmare that will last for years. You & I know the MSM will not report this news, they no longer report the truth as you do,that is what makes you so important to Americans that are tired of the DC two step that comes from both parties. Returning our Nation to the Republic that our founders gave us will take years & a new set of Leaders that do not get drawn into the evil web that will remain in tact after the Nov elections. One other problem is already coming up, early voting fraud, it could be wide spread because of what’s at stake for these unions,these unions bosses will not give up their cushy life styles they have become use to!
Greg, your article is posted at Jim’s site today, that’s great,I hope your readers go there. http://www.jsmineset.com, a great place to find the truth.
M Smith,
Yes, thank you for this information.
Greg
I think we shouldn’t overlook the fact that people were *not* paying their mortgages. This is first and foremost.
It seems like dead beats were enjoying the party and refinancing (like my neighbor who was a school principal, retired 20 years ago, refi-ed her home 10 times, had new Jaguar every year, took month-long cruise vacations, and because of that never paid off her home, which is then lost – and now what, she is a victim?? and person who bought her home for cash from 20 years of saving is now what?? – not a rightful owner??).
Please, shame on all these people who are trying silly legalities because they were deadbeats.
I cannot possibly believe that anything big will come out of this. People who should lose their homes will lose them. People who paid money and obtained title insurance will keep their homes.
That’s the right thing to do. Congress will by accident do the right thing here. Congress will pander to big banks for sure, but accidentally will also preserve ownership and stability.
Curt,
Yes I agree with you dead beats should not get a free ride but either should the banksters. Laws should be applied evenly nopt just to the little people. I am not a deadbeat and I do not encourage iit but I can see why it is happening. Thank you for your comment, it is valid.
Greg
I thought this ownership and show me the original paperwork ruse was more about the bogus derivatives that were created as securitized and falsely AAA rated loan products. If the homeowners can use it to stay in their homes is just an offshoot of the bigger law suits the state AG’s are about to file.
The banks have a legal responsibilty to do verifiable accounting procedures as part of the agreement made with those securitized derivative products and the fact that 1, those products are really worthless because they were bundled with loans of which a significant number of them are now in default and 2, the fact that the banks that sold those basically worthless products to the pension and mutual funds cannot now produce verifiable paperwork which makes them in violation of the legal business standards they were required to maintain, gives the state AG’s the legal opportunity to seek compensation for the worthless securities their city, state, police and fire pensions were sold…
I hope that makes sense…
Thats my understanding of where this show me the paperwork is really going.. its not so much a way of people getting to live free or have some free ride…
Dear Greg:
I just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to respond to almost every comment, I think it’s really cool that you give your readers that level of interaction.
Thank you Jim.N for the knid words and the comment!
Greg
Don’t kid yourself, the gummimit will pass knee-jerk legislation. The purpose will be to provide a window of opportunity for the paper-holders to clean the mess up. As with all legislation passed reactively, there will be a prolonged “Law of Unintended Consequences” by everyone.
This will create the environment for further knee-jerk amendments to the legislation. Slapping a fresh coat of paint on garbage doesn’t alter the fact that it is garbage.
The question then becomes, “What exactly did the Gummimit nationalize?” Did we just buy garbage? If the paperwork was flawed before it was nationalized, it is even more so now. Mayhaps it will all become government housing.
So we could ask this question, “Just what is the premium on clear titles worth in the new and improved real estate market?”
We are still faced with what will become a title insurance issue. During this last census, I was asked specifically, “Are you renting, buying or own your home?” Most curious!
Congress will try to pass some “get out of mess free” legislation. It will fail to accomplish the desired results. They will pass more bandaid bills, but the hemmorhaging will continue. Never underestimate the money involved and never underestimate the voters. These conflicting issues will weigh heavily against the government’s main priority of increased tax revenue streams. This is the crux of the matter.
If the big banks fail, we lose. If the banks get thier “get out of mess free” legislation, we lose. We lost when we signed the paperwork thinking we would be winners with no stake in the game. We need to understand that without a clear title, we don’t own squat. Only fools would believe that buying a home is an investment. It is a depreciating asset; just look at the taxation scheme for rentals versus buying.
Hmmm, this adds a whole new meaning to government investing in America. We have a declining tax base, but we are gaining rental income. The wealth transfer to the government will continue. Mortgage servicing companies are only contractors who bid the job too low. They will lose because they failed to secure the needed paperwork. Only the government/FED can unwind this mess because they own the printing press. They can afford the possible $10K per mortgage needed to clean up titles. Congress will pass whatever legislation needed to accomplish this directive.
We have another boogeyman to consider. Property taxes. We have a declining asset base and clouded titles. We have local goverments cutting services and facing revenue deficits. Most, if not all, are mandated to balance the books. Who pays? We do. The only option is in the form of sales taxes and personal property taxation. Tax revenues must be replaced.
TANSTAAFL There is no such thing as altruism or fairness in commerce. Taxation is a form of commerce. So we are facing increased taxation to cover the losses of this mortgage mess when the public can least afford it. But then again, you get what you pay for. ARMs, no downs and liar loans are just what the public demanded. The tool was Mortgage Backed Securities with a healthy dose of electronic book-keeping. In the ’80’s we were told that with the advent of computers, we would enter the era of a paperless society. Gotcha!
My questions would be, “With no supporting paperwork, how can any bank claim asset value? Would the bank pass a stress test under this scenario? Just how valuable is a property with a clouded title? Who is going to see this as an opportunity for investment and buy up these soon to be discounted properties with the clouded title?” You will be able to buy it cheap, hire a bunch of college kids to ferret out the paperwork, clean it up and resell it with a nice profit. Banks stay in business by selling debts in order to cut losses. Half the pie beats the snot out of no pie. At the end of the day, hard assets beat out mark-to-model assets every time. From the tax revenue standpoint, far better for corporations to unwind this paperwork mess and make profits rather than the government.
The business of America is business. The name of the game is tax revenues and protecting that revenue stream. Never bet against the House (of Representatives) as this is where it will begin. The Senate will fall in line out of fear of voter retribution. POTUS is the designated fall guy. Always has been, always will be.
OTE,
You have outdone yourself with this comment. It was worth reading! Thank you for weighing in on this site!!!
Greg
“But then again, you get what you pay for. ARMs, no downs and liar loans are just what the public demanded.”
I must have missed that memo… my business partner got a loan during the time these liar loans were the norm. I remember her telling me how they never asked for any documents to back up what was written on the application.
Fortunately she understood the terms of the ARM she got and re-financed before this mess became the headlines. But I want to stress she never lied to get her loan, she was never expected to provide any information.
Isn’t it the responsibility of the loan processor to verify information. I blame this mess 100% on the loan originators, processors and the banks that failed in their responsiblities of verifying what they were accepting.
Anybody can apply for a loan. This is America. It’s up to the loan agent to qualify the applicants and deny credit when appropriate. From what Ive read, many of these loan agents changed figures submitted by the applicants to ensure they were qualified.
Robert,
Welcome back!!
Greg
Banks (banksters) knew that they were breaking state recording laws, when they started packaging MBSs. That’s why they invented MERS, along with Fannie and Freddie’s blessings. (Barney and Chris should be hung)
I don’t have a mortgage, but here’s hoping all the TBTF banks, have to bend over and take it, like the American public has, for years, from them!
Lostinmissouri,
I feel your rage! By the way I am from the Show Me State!!! Thanks.
Greg
…this is much more than just about shoddy robo-signing paperwork….and sad to say, what about all the responsible people making timely monthly payments on their mortgage. If sub-prime mortgages, those that were graded much lower and least desirable to sell off, are lost in the ‘who knows where world,’ what about prime loans graded much higher in the risk trade. They were a safer bet so probably were sold off more times than the sub-prime loans. If the comex can sell forward 100oz of paper gold for every real one oz. in storage, how many times has that prime secured mortgage been sold off by the banksters? Could it be someday 20 or more entities can lay false claim to a single home? Unfortunately, perhaps those making payments for 20/30 years and finally do pay off their mortgage will not have a deed anywhere to be found to be reconveyed!….or who knows what can of worms that opens…..what then….?
Carney is right and you are wrong. Congress will do exactly what Carney says. The alternative is to discover that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, who originated MERS, are in it up to their necks, and every MBS constructed through MERS transferred mortgages is worthless. There are $1.2 trillion of MBS’s in Fed holdings alone. Congress is not going to punch a $1.2 trillion hole in the Fed balance sheet and sink BAC, WFC, and JPM. Never happen. They’ll cover them.
Keith,
So Congress is going to change hundreds of years of real estate document law in each and every state? Along with IRS tax laws broken, trust laws broken, security laws broken and on top of that, make crimes retroactively not crimes anymore? That’s a lot even for Congress. I think the path of least resistance is more likely printing money to paper over the problem. I mentioned that in the post. I hope you are wrong on Congress because if they do change all of thess laws to comfort the criminal banksters, we might as well change the name of the country to the United States of Crime. Thank you for your comment and as I always say “Good men can disagree.”
Greg
In response to Dave; The whole point is that is is NOT safe to assume that the entity you pay every month actually owns your note. And the issue here isn’t whether someone who is in default can be foreclosed upon. The bigger issue is that if the bank cannot foreclose because they can’t show clear chain of title (and thus don’t have legal standing to foreclose) then they also cannot deliver clear title to the homeowner who pays off his mortgage in full! To me that’s a bigger problem and nobody (at least in the mainstream media) is talking about it.
Greg,
Looking forward to hearing you tomorrow (Thursday, 10/21/10 on the 8:00 AM hour)on WZTK FM 101.1 on “The Brad & Britt Show”.
For the rest of the folks here on the blog, check out this link http://www.fmtalk1011.com at the eight o’clock a.m. hour.
Hit the The Big Red Listen Live Button and you can hear Greg converse with Brad & Britt.
You won’t be disappointed.
Peace
James
Thank you James!!!
Greg
The truth is if people took the bankers and congress and hung them from tree this would stop but all they don is fine them and then they just give us the money we just gave them we are doomed
Our founding farthers killed there oppressive govment and they to died as well our founding farthers deserve the Republic they so sacrifice for but the people of today they no not what sacrifice is!
The bankers worked for over a 100 years to take back the power to create the Free peoples money!
So maybe they earned that right they certainly are not afraid to kill look what they did to the Kennedys when they tried to take back to power to create the money
The people did not a thing!! Thay gave there life for nothing!
So I say go ahead bankers you earned it do what you will the people are dosel and only will march with signs or blog about how outraged they are
The Republic is dead and you are the Victor
I recently paid off my home [I had a 15 year and made extra payments each month – took 10 years but it’s done].
I received a congratulations note from Wells Fargo and from MERS a letter of declaration To Whom It May Concern that on behalf of Wells Fargo I had paid off my lone. Original loan doc marked “Paid” has not been forthcoming. I went to the MERS website and entered my loan account # and discovered that Fannie May owns my note.
I expect I’ll have to hire a lawyer and file a “Quiet Title” action with the Riverside County Court to get a Judge to give me full title to my home. If I don’t I fear I’ll get a knock on the door and meet some Suit that has the original note and claims he was never paid.
I’ll let everyone know how this turns-out.
John T. from the Banning Bunker,
Thank you for sharing this important information from the front lines of the real estate market!!! Please let us know how this turns out. Thank you very much!!!
Greg
John T. from the Banning Bunker-
Thanks for the MERS info. And congrats to you for having your mortgage paid in full. I entered my loan # on the MERS website and this is the info available.
Servicer: Wells Fargo Home Mortgage a Division of Wells Fargo Bank NA
Investor: Fannie Mae Washington, DC
We the People (that care to know) are getting educated.
I know who owns my house, I do. When I was a boy, we learned a poem that went something like this. A borrower nor a lender be, a borrower often loses both self and friend. Remember, when we actually taught values and virtues in the public schools?
Davu,
You are very lucky. A free and clear deed is going to be very valuable!!
Greg
George-
Odds are that WF will show me they own the loan just as I hope they will. The “point of the exercise” is to make them proove it. To my knowledge they have not sold my loan and have never indicated such. Apparently you haven’t heard how many homeowners have been surprised to learn (thru foreclosure) who really owns their mortgage. Whats the big deal of causing Wells or any bank to do a little extra work to proove they are clean? Maybe you are a tad naive?
Free lunches are not welcome in my world!
“Will the Fed be forced to, once again, save the big banks by printing trillions of dollars? Who knows, but the banks cannot afford to buy back all their sins without going bust!”
That’s the $64 billion question according to a great article I just read called “Fraudclosure: The End Run!” –
http://www.rense.com/mp1/Fraudclosure%20The%20End%20Run%20Rense.pdf
50 years ago I was a file clerk for a large california mortgage company. We kept careful track of all loan documentation, NOT! The origination papers were contained in files and thrown in a huge storage unit, in a semi (orderly, and thats being generous) manner. I spent literally days, sometimes weeks looking for a particular file. Do you believe things have gotten better?
Good info schweizer40. Thank you.
Doesn’t this problem go way beyond foreclosures? How can ANY purchase and sale of property that is encumbered with a securitized mortgage proceed? Neither the buyer nor the seller can be certain that the seller’s mortgage and lien will be closed out properly, representing increased risk for both parties! Furthermore, how could a title insurance company stand behind the transaction? I can see it now… someone buys a house and a year later the bank decides to foreclose on the old owner as a result of this paperwork mess.
We’re kidding ourselves by calling this a “foreclosure” crisis… that’s only the most obvious of the many symptoms of this problem that will emerge.
Yes Christo,
This could crash the system but I hope is does not!!
Greg
Greg, Greg, Greg….. we WANT this to “crash the system”, along with every other banana peel and trip-wire, and non-lethal Claymore mine we can possibly put in front of these inept Keystone Kops.
How many times do I have to keep repeating this: ?
The FASTER we can make it ALL COLLAPSE in a HEAP, the sooner we can start rebuilding a REAL economy again.
With so many people holding mortgages, this is EXACTLY the “neutron bomb” we NEED to go off! And the sooner, the better.
ManAbout Dallas,
I know you are right, and a crash cannot and will not be avoided. I am just trying to get a few folks as ready for the coming meltdown as they can be. Thank you Man!!
Greg
Who Really Owns Your Home?
Just wanted to point out that even if you pay off your mortgage you still have to pay other tribute. Property Taxes! Don’t pay those and see what happens. I’m just wondering, besides homes, do car and boat loans have the same problems? They can be high priced too and have underwater loans.
Slingshot,
Good point man!!
Greg
John T:
That’s interesting. A woman at work went through a similar process. She wanted to send in the last payment for her house and the bank wouldn’t take it! I would hear her on the phone screaming at them that she wanted to pay it off and be done with it and they didn’t want her to do it.
I’ll have to ask her if like John, she has her original loan doc marked “paid” physically in her possession.
This is crazy. I’m learning so much from reading this site. Thanks Greg.
Nm,
Thank you for your participation in this site. Your comments add to the discussion.
Greg
It’s hard to feel any sympathy for banks when they loan “money” created through their fractional reserve fraud, and their debtors have to pay with “money” earned from actual labor.
And it’s impossible to overestimate the perfidy of Con-gress, Obama or the courts. Perhaps the moratorium will be enacted (after November elections, of course) and the big banks bailed out again while the little banks fail and get gobbled up. Then the powerful consolidate more power. Obama’s objections to the moratorium sound like Brer Rabbit begging not to be thrown into the briar patch.
Thanks, Greg, for this excellent article.
Randolph,
“Con-gress” You got that right!! Good comment.
Greg
Greg, you have been predicting just this scenario for a long time. Sadly, you are once again spot ont!
David Conrad,
Thanks man. In this case, it makes me sick to be right.
Greg
Hi Greg, my humble opinion is that the reason we have arrived at a point of such, corruption, outright fraud, and dishonesty is because the money itself is corrupt, outrightly fraudulent, and dishonest.
I agree with all of what you say here but the first step needs to be to give honest money back to the citizens of our fine republic.
When the money itself is unchecked and against the rules, these people deriving huge profits and stealing the true wealth of our nation feel no compulsion to be regulated or to follow the rules. As long as we continue to have heaps of dishonest money, we will have heaps of dishonest people lined up to steal it: Bankers, politicians, unions, lawyers…………………….
This fraud is so deep on so many levels, none of us will ever grasp just what has gone on here. When you consider the “magic” of fractional reserve banking, these bankers had hardly any consideration on the table to bundle up and sell this toxic mess.
I have a question Greg: What about PMI? If all of these defaults were on mortgages that purportedly should not have received mortgages, then presumably, these mortgages had PMI. Why isn’t PMI covering these defaulted mortgages. Furthermore, if PMI is not paying, why are new mortgages being written with PMI. If that system failed and isn’t paying, why should anyone pay PMI on a policy that will not pay?
Tom H,
You are spot on about the money. I haven’t a clue on what the PMI people will do. Companies usually do not pay off on fraud. Thank you.
Greg
EVERY NORTH CAROLINA BANK FORECLOSURE IS A FRAUD. Further, EVERY county court in North Carolina is without legitimate authority, per the NC Statutes. I have documented this time and again, and obviously, the “officials” won’t even look at it, much less prosecute.
The details are here:
http://absentcapacity.wordpress.com/2010/10/19/all-north-carolina-bank-foreclosures-are-void-and-fraudulent/
Please spread the word!
Jay Vincent Shore,
Thank you for sharing this info and video!!!
Greg
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article23627.html
Hi Greg,
Who owns my home mortgage? I am trying to find out. The bank that holds our commercial property mortgage produced everything two days after I made the request for the information. My home mortgage banks has not responded. We are not in foreclosure and have never been late on payment in twenty six years. I will keep after them to produce the note.
I do not understand why the banks will not work with the homeowners. I do not mean writing down the mortgage, but maybe reducing the interest rate and extending the loan repayment period by ten or twenty years to give the economy and the housing market time to recover. This to me seems like a win-win for the banks and the homeowners.
After I read the article linked above, I have to wonder why union members still vote for the Democrats exclusively. The public employees I know are just ordinary people, doing their jobs, taking care of their families and hoping to retire someday too. They too will be devastate by the devaluation of the dollar, hyper-inflation and they will surely lose those reviled retirement benefits. Even if the government took every 401 K and IRA account from private businesses and individuals, there is not enough to pay the unfunded government pensions benefits. We are all in the same boat. Their government paycheck will not buy anything more than my privately earned paycheck. Our taxes go up and their taxes go up. No one wins except the banks and special interest. We are all in the same boat and need to start rowing together.
Jan
Jan,
Please share with us what you find out about your mortgage. Thanks.
Greg
Greg, this topic sure has hit home with alot of people. Ive never felt so insecure about the future as I do these days and I dont think Im alone… I use to think my golden years would be pretty much like my parents and grandparents were.. comfortable but not extravagant…
But with the trans-nationals having so much influence over our government policies now, all I can think of is what I learned in all the years I was an employee of big business and that is they see employees as expendable. How hard will it be for our new govt of for and by the corporations to extrapolate that view to people? Especially boomers who are getting ready to enter the social programs that we paid for with our taxes. Those same corporations want to compete for those dollars in the form of lucrative contracts… like that Medicare Part D that ensures we tax payers pay top dollar for drugs purchased through the Medicare system… What a scam that was and theres no way to fix it… that was part of the deal, no breaks for volume pricing… How many other government program contracts are written like that we dont know about?
Thank you Robert for the comment.
Greg
I am really starting to hate the banks. These people are pigs.
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/the-big-wall-street-banks-have-found-a-new-way-to-strangle-the-american-people-predatory-property-tax-collection
Jan,
You are certainly not the only one. I hate them too and have for a long time. Thanks for the comment and the link.
Greg
Greg,
I agree with you Congress cannot change the real estate laws of the various States without a Constitutional Amendment essentially doing away with the States. At the core of what it means to be an individual sovereign state is the regulation and control of the land within a state. When it comes to the actual property laws regarding documentation and recordation this is purely a matter of State law. The violence to the Constitution of any such suggested legislation would be monumental.
Where there is a law in place everyone is expected to follow and obey the law. This is called the “rule of law.” This is the fundamental principle upon which our entire legal system functions. Depart from the rule of law and we get the rule of tyrants, where only sheer raw power matters.
Meet Jo Ann Caudle, a KEY PLAYER IN THE FORECLOSURE FRAUD MORTGAGE CRISIS.
http://absentcapacity.wordpress.com/2010/11/05/a-key-player-in-the-foreclosure-fraud-mortgage-crisis/
This is how it happens, folks. These jokers even KNOW that they are wrong to foreclose, and they DO IT ANYWAY.
I have this on certified court report transcript.
Let’s hope the tipping point comes soon.
Jay Vincent Shore,
Great info for the readers. Thank you!
Greg
FACT: EVERY NC FORECLOSURE IS RIGGED!
http://absentcapacity.wordpress.com/2010/11/07/fact-north-carolina-foreclosures-are-rigged/
See it for yourself!
Jay,
Thank you for posting this. Everybody needs to see it because it probably applies to them no matter what state they live in.
Greg
Great site! Love C2C, I will be listening in.
One question: If a person pays cash for their home, is it possible for someone to draft a bogus promissory note and bundle it off with real mortgages? Would it be possible for this said house be foreclosed upon?
It seems there is no end to the corruption. Thanks for all your info.
Denise,
If you pay cash for a house you own it. A bogus promissory note is just that bogus and fraudulent. I do not see how a foreclosure could happen if you had the deed in your name free and clear.
Greg
Thanks! You settled a topic of (hysterical) conversation.
Have a great interview with Ian.
Mr. Hunter,
I am listening to Coast to Coast November 14 and heard your comments that started about 11pm. I sure would like to have a way to get that broadcast as a on line download if possible. If there is anyway to get
this please let me know, it is very important to me. Now that I know about your website I will mark it as a favorite.
Mr. Harris
Mr. Harris,
I think you can go to the Coast to Coast website and pay a small fee and get access to the show I was on. Thank you for listening and supporting this site.
Greg
Morning Greg
I really enjoyed you on Coast to Coast this morning. The fact is people need to know who actually owns the mortgage. Especially if you are one of the few paying. And maybe you don’t know how BOA tries to steal from you. I have fought battles with BOA for money due me. They tried everything in the book but I fought back. Do you know the power of the words “Would you like the house back” when speaking to customer service at BOA? I am one who has been on top of this and requested my documents. I received documents from BOA claiming to be my documents but oddly two days later I received a letter from BOA stating they did not own the loan they were only the servicer. I truly enjoyed the letter stating I needed to understand the difference between owner and servicer.
After listening to caller who paid right at the grace time. I have a 2nd mortgage there also. For the last couple of months I have been paying shortly after the grace period but not long enough for it to hit my credit report. They would call me numerous times a day every day starting on the 17th of the month. As I sleep during the day I let their messages go to voice mail. Would you believe 90% of the time they would say nothing just leave 5 minutes of air time? Just appearing to work for a pay check.
Also I never see it mentioned the effect of all of this on home sells. With some many being foreclosed on who is going to be left to buy the homes now on the market? From what I understand once you have a foreclosure on your credit how on earth can you ever purchase another one?
Mari,
Good point Mari. I think Home prices are going to come down even more and that will shock most people.
Greg
I heard your interview on Coast to Coast last night. Fascinating no doubt. One question though, it seems that the focus is on foreclosure. Why does the schedule of payments paid or unpaid matter? If the note can’t be produced or has been separated from the deed, then what prevents me from claiming a quiet title? I’m not a lawyer nor do I play one on tv. I’m just asking because I plan to pay off my mortgage next year. It seems that I would have to file for quiet title anyway. Thanks.
Ginny,
I think it would be worth it to you to get that question answered by a qualified real estate attorney in your state. I would love to know if your mortgage company could actually produce the Promissory Note. Thank you for the comment.
Greg
Thank you Greg for illuminating this scandal last night. My house is in foreclosure right now and will be auctioned off in a few weeks at a courthouse sale. My local bank–First State Bank of Martin, TN–sold my note to Countrywide and then of course Bank of America ended up with it. (First State was given $40 million in TARP funds.) I love how the BANKSTERS were given BILLIONS in TARP funds that came straight from taxpayers. Bank of America has done everything they can to NOT assist me in modifying my loan. It seems the so-called modification program was nothing but a SHAM. I’ve been investigating how to survive life as a homeless person and live out of my vehicle. Any benevolent millionaires desiring to assist me to the tune of $70,000 are encouraged to contact me at, [email protected]
Anthony,
So sorry to hear you have been rip-off by the banksters. Thank you for sharing your story here.
Greg
im in the real estate bus i recenyly paid off a large loan [took a huge loss ] but zeroed it now near a year later the bank will not send back my note or mortgage [bank not the original ] ive requested 3 xs im not too worried yet as i still owe them on other loans what u are seeing is the death of a fiat banking system it was fun while it lasted look back 2010 will be paradise compared to what is comming years back [ 40] a banker told me if u start out with nothing and end with nothing aint lost nothing how right he was top of the day to u all j
Thank you Jay.
Greg
Greg,
of course Congress actually did write legislation HR3808 to “fix” this problem for the banks.
What was scary is that the matter came up for vote with NO DISCUSSION at all. House and Senate passed it nearly 100% ayes.
Thank you President Obama for pocket vetoing this bill.
as far as representation “for the people” folks us poor residents do not have the clout or the ear like the banks do.
sit up an pay attention and forget the tea party, we have learned by Congress’ actions that they just do not want to treat the laws of the land fairly when their big supporters are going to suffer.
Iverson,
Our own elected officials are against us. We are doomed. Thank you.
Greg
Wondering if you have recanted on the government won’t pass a law idea? Not 1 bank has stopped illegal foreclosure nor has even 1 been prosecuted.
lannie Loeks,
Yes, the bad guys won and they have gotten away with outright fraud and crime. Does this make you feel good? Remember, I wrote about this in 2010 when everybody was wondering what happened. The MSM would not call it fraud, perjury and fraud. They soft pedaled it by calling it sloppy paper work and “robo-signing.” I called it crime then and still do. This is why the economy will never get better. Nothing is fixed and we are just postponing a crash in the economy with suppressed interest rates. Thank you for your comment.
Greg
I am seriously considering to move from the United States over all of this nasty business.
My biggest pet peeve is not so much the housing bubble other than when I left the military and was buying my first home the agent kept telling me the house I wanted was worth $130,000 when it’s actual value was more like $96,000.
Also all the closing costs with everyone with their hand in my pocket when they had no business or right to other than regulators let them.
Home ownership in the United States does not mean you own it at all even if it’s paid off.
Thank God I don’t live in a homeowners association or I would be even more up in arms such as my sister who can’t even add a Mango tree to her backyard or she will be fined for having a fruit tree.
Here in this state and country I can’t even add a porch to the back of my house without a permit without being fined by the city.
Legally, according to the state of Florida I can’t even change my bath tub as if it was any of their business.
My Homeowners Insurance has gone up every year since I bought the place when there has been no major storms since 2004 and I have never made a single claim yet they have also dropped coverage such as Sink Holes.
This country has gone to extreme lengths to regulate certain areas and let Insurance companies have free reign to just make your life miserable.
To permit and fine the population into submission has gotten out of control and writing your Senator or Congressman yields a rubber stamp response.
Literally this country makes me miserable as hell especially when it takes my hard earned taxes and can’t even use them effectively.
If I purchase a plot of land or a house it should be no business of anyone of what I do on it even if I want to build a pool without a permit. As long as I harm no one other than myself it is none of your business.
Did Thomas Jefferson pull permits to build Monticello? I think not.
Property rights are sacred yet Florida like many other states trample over your freedoms every day.
The only freedom you truly have in this country is the freedom to shop at Walmart.
The mortgage securitization aspects & comments mentioned (specifically referring to the bifurcation of the loan documents and evident lack of standing to foreclose by the servicer/collector) is fine and dandy but everyone is still missing the most important aspect. It is fairly safe to say that literally everyone home purchased with a mortgage by way of a conventional thrift institution (bank) has been 100% paid for. It is solely due to the mortgagor’s (who is the creditor and originator of the funds transfer in all actuality — UCC 4A-104 — not the bank) lack of knowledge of the fractional reserve system and what exactly constitutes a bank deposit (12 USC 1813(l)(1)) . The promissory NOTE (Not different in any way intrinsically than a federal reserve NOTE) that started the whole transaction, is still commercial paper at the end of the day and a cash equivalent of its face value. Make no mistake, this is in fact ledgered on the receivables and payables of the institution (if the bank is to in fact follow GAAP and in turn proper IRS reporting) unbeknownst to you and in your name (Who else’s name would it be in?). This isn’t disclosed to you simply because 1.) you most likely didn’t confirm your convictions in the matter by way of your signature — UCC 1-308 & 3-415 2.) By signing and tendering the note (a unilateral contract at that) you in turn made a GENERAL deposit in contradistinction to a SPECIAL deposit. 3.) The original bank (before it was assigned or securitized) was obligated in no way to tell you that you actually tendered payment for full satisfaction and accord — UCC 3-311 — simply because you never expressed your true intent. The Banksters never lent you anything and your signature, as I’m sure many have heard, in fact did all the heavylifting. Its just up to you to air their dirty laundry within the time confines of TLA.